Ok this week we’re doing another question and will be returning to

our Mt. Dora adventures next week where we left off on 5th Ave.

but this week I got a totally off the wall question that takes me back to the UK:

I was talking abut Richard the Lion Hearted (OK so my conversations are a bit off the main stream but…..)when John came up and I mentioned the fate of the crown jewels in John’s keeping and one of my fellow conversationalist (This was at Aromas in Mt Dora)–-https://cafearoma-coffeeshop.business.site/   

and he wanted to know more about it—so we go treasure hunting today….in a much bigger way than our usual points of reference.

Oh and because I wanted to get this all in and in one entry it has ran a bit long—may take you a couple of seating to compete but I think it is worth the time  I have also included some information on local sites in regard to places you might visit or more information on he subject  Hope you enjoy it.

“He was a total jerk. He was loathed by contemporaries as cruel and cowardly,” Mark Morris, author of King John: Treachery, Tyranny, and the Road to the Magna Carta told the BBC in 2016. “There were rules, especially about how you treated nobles. John broke these taboos. He didn’t just kill, he was sadistic. He starved people to death. And not just enemy knights, but once a rival’s wife and son.”

When ‘Bad King John’ Lost The British Crown Jewels

Daily Beast

05.28.17 12:00 AM ET

https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-bad-king-john-lost-the-british-crown-jewels

I have oft read two things abut English Kings—-That Richard III was the evilest—which I do not agree with and which his various deeds of evil supposed have began to be piled up on others doors seems to leave that in debate (and I am one of those debaters`.  )  The Other is that John, the first and only (which may well give us a hint as to the truth of it all) was the worst King to ever set the throne of England.

Now he did have a hard line to follow:  He was descended from William I (who started out as “the Bastard” went on to “the Conqueror” to get to the 1st category) who was the first Norman ruler of what is now England.  His grandmother was Matilda, who fought her cousin for the throne and while she didn’t gain it for herself she did force him into making agreement that her son…Henry would take the throne as the First Plantagenet King (all Plantagenets are Norman, but not all Normans Plantagenet) and the 2nd Henry—he was also the first undisputed claim to the throne since Edward the Confessor, who died in 1066 leaving Harold II and William to determine who would take the prize.

Henry II had much to do even with out contending his throne, for he ruled over western Europe’s largest ’empire’—He had to control seriously uncooperative barons   He made several reforms of the legal system that is said to have “created the foundations of the English ‘common’ law.  But he also was a vassal to the French King for his huge amount of French lands, which is supposed one of the causes of the Hundred Year War.  He also made the mistake of making one of his friends Archbishop of Canterbury–the top Catholic church position in the country, but once he was named Becket began to take his religious duties seriously and once he rejected the crown’s authority of the church led to major issues with Henry ending with the murder of Becket by several of Henry’s knights who violated sanctuary and stabbed him to death in the Cathedral.  A murder for which the king would later pay penance at the holy man’s tomb at the same location.  https://www.canterbury-cathedral.org/heritage/

King John

  Sometime during August (1153) Eleanor gave birth to her first son, named William in honor of her father and grandfather….. For thirteen years Eleanor kept busy bearing children, five sons: (William died at the age of three), Henry, Richard, Geoffrey and John plus three daughters: Matilda, Eleanor and Joanna. Her children would one day show the world where they came from as two of her daughters became queens ……..on December 24, 1167 Eleanor gave birth to the future king John; it was her last childbirth

Eleanor of Aquitaine

E-History

Ohio State University

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  1973 Allman Brothers Band Brothers and Sisters 33 1/3 Vinyl LP

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• John spent his time while Richard was out of the country (which between his battles and capture and held for ransom  left only about 6 months out of the 10 year reign spent in England–per BBC source) claiming the throne and plotting with the latest king of France who had had a falling out in the Holy Lands with Richard and had deserted the crusade to depart home).   Richard was wounded in battle–he had survived worse but this one became infected and killed the Lion Heart.

• Once he became king he managed to piss off the French his former ally by a divorce and new marriage.  A dispute with Rome over` a new Arch Bishop—yep that same Canterbury—he managed to get excommunicated in 1209 and it took him 4 years to get back in the church’s good grace.   A long running dispute with his nobles lead to his being forced to sign the Magna Carta (1215)  https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/runnymede-and-ankerwycke  and while that particular document only served persons of power (while taking from his—he did denounce it a year later resulting in a rebellion) it is felt to be England’s first step in establishing constitutional government.  And what is described by some as the last characteristically bungled incident in which the crown jewels in quicksand “while crossing the Wash.”   He died in Oct. 2016),  Oh and the final fate:   he died of dysentery:  gut pains and frequent passage of stool or diarrhea.

John’s Tomb which I in Worchester Cathedral

http://worcestercathedral.co.uk/King_John.php

is pictured above with an effigy of the king flanked by St. Wulfstan and St. Oswald:  John’s will is displayed in the cathedral’s library….check out the cathedral site it is quite interesting info on John including the tomb being open etc.

Husband of Isabella of Gloucester and Isabella of Angoulême

Partner of Clementia le Boteler, Concubine of John “Lackland”; Agatha de Ferrers; Adela de Warenne, Concubine #1 of John “Lackland” of England; Clementia Pinel Concubine #2 of John “Lackland” of England; Hawise FitzWarin, Mistress of John “Lackland” and 2 others

Father of Henry III of England; Richard, 1st Earl of Cornwall; Joan of England, Queen Consort of Scotland; Isabella of England, Holy Roman Empress; Queen consort of Sicily; Eleanor of Leicester, Countess of Pembroke & Leicester and 12 others

https://www.geni.com/people/John-Lackland-King-of-England/4924870419470035934

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So John is in (even if he doesn’t know it) last disaster—trying to outlast a rebellion and word has it the French still were not gonna give him any breaks.  It’s 1216—The Rebels hold London and the Magna Carta which he has renounced and even though the church has allowed him to return to their fold, it’s said that there’s not a lot of love lost between and many of the local Church heads….it is said that John and his troops were between King’s Lynn (, known until 1537 as Bishop’s Lynn https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractions-g315936-Activities-King_s_Lynn_Norfolk_East_Anglia_England.html   ) and Lincoln     https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractions-g186336-Activities-Lincoln_Lincolnshire_England.html   and that he was transporting  the jewels (Richard is known to be a bad king but a good judge of jewels and thought the actual pieces involved in the hoard Is not known at this time it is anticipated to be worth a vast fortune)  along with the arm supplies—from then on it gets crazy.  Some say that John took sick and went around the Wash   (  http://www.bbc.co.uk/england/sevenwonders/yorkshire/the_wash/   )  while his troops continue to bring the entire supply train thru this marshy section of Eastern England….others say that Richard accompanied them.  What ever most agree that the treasure was lost when high tide hit the Wash, drowning the jewels, along with many men, horses and supplies as well.   Richard died a short time later at Newark Castle    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/newark-castle-remains   

No crown or other parts of the jewels that historians anticipate as part of the Crown Jewels were noted in the records as being present when John’s son Henry (III) was crowned, in fact it was noted in some source that a gold ring of some sort was used instead of a crown for the coronation

Today the Wash is still there, but the lands that were marshes then are now dry sand dunes and cover miles—-the hay stack for the preverbal needle—and if that wasn’t enough there’s also the long period that the high tides and winter storms that have battered the area and could have pushed it elsewhere or out into the deeper waters of the sea.    Oh and if all that isn’t enough some say that John could have already sold them off or left them as collateral for money for his wars or whatever else the bad king might have thought up along the way.

One more point of note–you can see the current crown jewels (well worth a visit I would advise) at the Tower of London     https://www.hrp.org.uk/tower-of-london/explore/the-crown-jewels/#gs.p6BNHm8   

However you might be interested that they are not the next set after John’s vanished treasurers .  Seems that after the execution of Charles (  https://www.traveldarkly.com/oliver-cromwell-charles-i-london-execution-sites/   )   following his loss of power to Parliament after the English Revolution  in 1649, Oliver Cromwell destroyed the crown jewels with every piece either sold or melted down.

• The precise location where the Crown Jewels were lost is a bit of a mystery; it is usually assumed to have been somewhere near Sutton Bridge, on the River Nene. However, there is one inconsistency which casts doubts on that theory; while most modern historians agree John travelled separately from the carts, contemporary sources claimed the King was actually within the immediate vicinity and in fact barely escaped with his own life. If that is accurate, then the location should be moved because it is known King John crossed Wellstream at Wisbech. Many other theories exist, but so far none has helped to recover anything. Of course, modern treasure hunters should be aware that most metal detectors would be quite useless wherever the incident took place: because of the centuries that have passed, the treasure will be buried underneath 20 feet or more of slit.

Day in History: King John Loses Crown Jewels